| Pastor Dave grew up in northern New Jersey in a very diverse cultural area. He attended Central College in Pella, Iowa received a BA in sociology and psychology. He was an offensive guard for their NCAA Div III National Championship team in 1974. In speaking for the Fellowship of Christian Athletes, he sensed a call to full time ministry. Meeting is future wife Sandy at Central, went to Michigan to finish her college while Dave started Western Seminary in Holland, Michigan. Dave married Sandy in 77 and completed his Masters of Divinity degree in 78. Pastor Dave’s first church was in Fort Lee, New Jersey, home of the George Washington Bridge. Their three children were born there and he also served as a Police and Fire Chaplain for the city. In February 1991, they came to Wichita to start Harvest Community Church. In 2006, he received his Doctor of Ministry degree from Covenant Theological (Presbyterian) Seminary in St Louis. During that year he gained a daughter-in-law with now 2 grandsons of 3 years and 6 months old. Besides Pastoring at HCC for the past 20 years, he has been Director of the SCSD & WPD Police Chaplains for 11.
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Religion
2009-12-01 08:24:00
Souls - torment or happiness before Christ?
Question: When people died in the Old Testament, before our Lord came, was crucified and re-opened the gates of Heaven, where did their souls go? Were they in a place of torment or happiness?
Answer: In researching the concept of the afterlife in the Old Testament, one finds not as much interest and emphasis as in the New Testament. More emphasis is focused on one’s earthly existence, living purposely in relationship with God and fellow man. But there are hints and Jesus helps us fill in some of the gaps in His parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus in Luke 16.
Early in the book of Genesis the afterlife is referred to in vague terms as found in 25:8 a person was “gathered to their people” or a rejoining of loved ones after their death. It was spoken also as a place where the wicked are “cut off from their people” in Genesis 17:14. The finality of death is also emphasized when it speaks in terms of returning to “dust” (Ecclesiastes 3:19-20) and as being “water being spilled on the ground which cannot be gathered up again.” (2 Samuel 14:14).
Also in the OT, afterlife was alluded to as a shadowy place called “Sheol.” It’s seen as a place of darkness (Job 10:21-22), silence (Psalm 115:17), and located in the low places (Psalm 88:7). It’s the place where God puts people (1 Samuel 2:6) and even the great leaders who the Lord has brought low (Isaiah 14:9-10). The whole idea of judgment also arises in Daniel 12:2 where it says, “Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt.”
Now Jesus sheds some light on the O.T. afterlife experience when He speaks of the parable of the “Rich man and Lazarus” in Luke 16. He uses it in the context of teaching His disciples, while the Pharisees were eavesdropping, on the proper use of wealth. Jesus then paints a picture of the very human side of wealth and its temporary value through two men, the rich man who has no name and the poor man who is named Lazarus. The rich man in life could have easily helped Lazarus out, had a lot and was very flamboyant with special clothing and hosted many parties, even had a burial of which Lazarus was even too poor for a burial but the rich man didn’t really have much. When the leveling moment of death comes to both men, judgment comes to the rich man, who probably had no name because in the end he really had nothing of eternal value.
What we see though as far as what is understood about the afterlife that Jesus exposes in this parable is: 1. There are two different parts to Hades or Sheol in the afterlife. 2. There is a huge chasm that separates the two places and never the two shall meet. 3. There is a conscious existence while one is there and even an awareness of both sides. 4. There is a part of it that is of peace and security called “Abraham’s Bosom” and the other side of judgment’s torment, agony and suffering.
As we have seen throughout the scriptures the idea of the afterlife is very prevalent and that it is just not going into nothingness or unconsciousness or non-existence. We see it is a specific place of conscious existence where there is a separation between the place of comforting peace and painful torment. There is a place of judgment, where a person will give an accounting of their life and receive their just rewards and punishment. A place where you wish you could redo things and help those who you know who have not died yet that you would like to warn, but it is here where it is too late.
What we see here is the consistency of God, where evil will go along fairly flamboyant for a season, doing at times better than any good we can see. But keep trusting in God for rest assured, it will not last! God’s balance of justice will turn for His good and all mankind will give an account of the lives they lead.
Are you sure what your destination will be? Do you have the hope of eternal life, joy, peace and life ever-lasting with the Lord Jesus Christ in heaven? If you were to die tonight, do you think you would go to heaven? What are you resting your hope in? In your own goodness? Look what Isaiah 64:6 says about that, “But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.” We need something more outside of ourselves to get us there. That we have been given by God who provided Jesus Christ to die to take away our sin and give us eternal life. We need more than just an intellectual knowledge of this, we need to accept Christ as our savior and Lord, and then we have eternal life. Listen as the Apostle Peter tells those in his congregation who were facing death everyday by the Emperors’ sword, (1 Peter 1:3-5) “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.” Looking forward in seeing you here and if not here, then there in His eternal bliss, Pastor Dave